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lebateleur Feb. 5th, 2021 08:07 pm)
lebateleur Feb. 5th, 2021 08:07 pm)TGIF! And what better way to celebrate the weekend than with the first Blake & Avery sync read post for The Strangler Vine.
This post covers the prologue and chapters 1-4. Beneath the cut tags are write-ups of each, focusing on some of the main developments and my reactions thereto. I've written these as though I'm reading the book for the first time, so there are spoilers for each chapter--but nothing beyond said chapter--under each cut. That way, everyone can dive in and comment on the without having to worry about being spoiled for anything that comes later in the book. (That said, I absolutely want to discuss foreshadowing, red herrings, and how subsequent chapters and books build on events in this post in comments! Just be sure to flag any spoilers up front.)
Random thoughts before we get started: I love Carter's use of archaic spellings--they really help give a sense of place and time period. Also, we're in Bengal; why is no one speaking Bangla?
And with that out of the way, let's get started!
Prologue:Standard mystery novel scene setting with an ambiguous character POV. Moving on...
Chapter 1:Our introduction to Avery, Blake, and Macpherson! I love the interactions between Avery and Macpherson, and how Carter uses them to introduce readers to Calcutta and to the duo’s differing reactions to it. We’re already starting to see how Avery is a fish out of water, and how deeply he’s afflicted by culture shock (and how little he realizes it).
We’re also introduced to Mountstuart—1827-style influencer and disrupter, and the reason why Avery came to India in the first place. Up to this point I wasn’t very disposed to like Avery; Macpherson’s geeky enthusiasm and openness to other cultures was much more my thing. But then we find out that Avery’s a fanboy bookworm, which goes a long way toward reconciling him.
And his interactions with Blake—oof. Here is someone who seems cut from the reverse side of the same cloth as Avery: willing to go toe-to-toe in rudeness, and definitely not taking care of himself. Neither of them come out of this reaction looking good. It seems like maybe Macpherson would have been the better choice to coax Blake into accepting the Company’s letter? He certainly seems like he’d have more in common with Blake, if Blake has gone native to the degree he’s rumored to, and thus likelier to get off on a better foot with Blake.
Chapter 2:The levee! But before we get to that, woah, this is how Mountstuart reads? Is he really as good as everyone says he is? I wonder how much of that passage Macpherson ad libbed. ;-) Again, I love the interactions here between Avery and Macpherson. Avery’s kind of a babe in the woods; you wonder how well he would have managed without Macpherson’s steady(ing) influence.
And poor Avery! The levee finds him back in what should be familiar territory, but he’s still a fish out of water. His schoolboy crush on Helen is endearing, and she certainly seems to share his disdain for Indian culture. (Also, I like Mountstuart’s poetry much more than his prose.) But alas! Just as Avery looks poised to make headway with Helen, he’s called away once more…
...to deal with Blake, no less. Who’s as displeased to be thrown back into Avery’s company as Avery is to find himself back in Blake’s. That said, we start to see here that there’s more to Blake than initially meets the eye. We’ve had some intimations here and in the proceeding chapter that he’s hardly from a privileged background, and yet he apparently rose through the ranks to Captain; Avery, with his much better family background has done nothing but spin his wheels. Buchanan thinks Blake’s the man for an irregular, commando style mission into the backofbeyond, for all he looks ready to crumble into dust. And yet, neither does it seem that Buchanan trusts him, judging from the fact that he’s chosen very proper Company man Avery to go along as minder and erstwhile spy.
Chapter 3:Holy afjkds$#! I’d thought for sure that Avery and Macpherson were going to be the main duo, and now Macpherson’s dead?!? Now who is going to help Avery see India through less jaundiced eyes? (To say nothing of win over Blake with a mutual love of Indian culture to get to the bottom of whatever fishy business Blake may be involved with?) It looks like there was a side to Macpherson’s cultural and linguistic expertise that Avery was entirely unaware of. The funeral scene was really touching: you get a good sense of how isolated young Company recruits are from their families and any sort of support system. That scene in Avery’s now empty bungalow: oh, that hurts. We also get our first hint of Avery’s age: around 21. It’s another weight on Avery’s shoulders, along with his: (probable) alcoholism, gambling habit and the debts it’s caused, poor financial skills in general, culture shock and displacement from his family, and emotional estrangement and likely depression. And then you have people like Keefe who are all too aware of how to take advantage of people like Avery.
As do Avery’s servants...although 21st century me is quite happy to seem them getting their digs in at the callous and incurious Company drones. Grieving, hung over, and robbed: a not at all auspicious start to his mission. And here’s Blake, making it very clear to Avery he doesn’t want him there either. Avery’s going to have to learn Hindi quickly or find himself even more isolated.
The scene were he abandons his possessions is painful. It’s brilliantly written, and shows both how pompous and ill-suited to the environment British/Company culture is, and how painful this journey is going to be for Avery, from whom all the remaining signifiers of his status (such as it is) and self-respect are shorn.
And given a choice between all of it, he chooses his books. Oh, Avery.
Chapter 4:
Chapter 4 is where the book really took off for me. We really start to get a deeper sense of who Avery is, versus who he thinks he is or tries to be. His fumbling attempt to make peace with Blake (and Blake’s cutting dismissal), and how, in his spectating of Blake, he has the capacity for observation and insight. We also get further insights into Avery’s personality: that he’s a bona fide outdoorsy type (vice someone who’s into riding and shooting as appropriately masculine signifiers) and would probably be enjoying this outing more if he could just shake off his attachment to cultural signifiers.
And oh my god, can we talk about how cool it is that we don’t even know what Blake looks like until we’re 55 pages into the novel? I can’t think of another author who doesn’t info-dump that information right at the outset. And even the description we get here isn’t really all that descriptive! Blake’s eyes are “some mud shade, [we] suppose”? How many other authors would be brave enough to do this?
Mir Aziz is the surprise MVP here, taking Avery under his wing to mitigate Avery’s hurt and resentment of his treatment at Blake’s hands. I do wonder though, whether Blake is as disinterested in the mission as Avery makes him out to be: after all, Avery has no idea what Blake is saying to any of the Indians or caravan members, etc. they encounter. And if Mountstuart disappeared looking for Thugs, it makes sense that the people closest to Thuggee might be in a better position to know what happened to him.
Anyway, I love the travelogue quality of this chapter. We get a sense of the flora, the fauna, the inconveniences and nuisances the travelers face, how customs change from location to location, and how the inhabitants view and live in their world (versus how the Company perceives them). Blake sure does seem to know a lot of people, doesn’t he? It’s interesting that he seems to be much more well liked among the Indian populations than and European society.
Page 67, and Avery’s reaction to it, made me love him and love this book. XD XD XD
…Aaand then Avery undoes it by bullying Mir Aziz. What are you doing!? Mir Aziz is the only person in this group inclined to show you kindness! Why are you being such a d-bag to him? (And remember how angry you get when you feel the Indians aren’t showing you appropriate respect? Imagine that, only it’s your country that’s been invaded and colonized, and you’re forced to grow opium poppies instead of food that could feed your country, which happens to be on the brink of famine. And, just, yeah.
Between this and Avery’s conversation with the Company civilian, we are really getting a sense of the ruinous arrogance and hypocrisy of the Company’s approach.)
And then Avery regains our sympathy with his uncomplicated happiness at his reception by Jiggins et al. Avery is very much a people person, if not bona fide extrovert, and we get such a good sense of how much he’s been hurting for human interaction and companionship. And because he gets it, he gives away a little more than perhaps we should. Interesting tidbit about Blake—or maybe another Blake—getting drunk and cursing in Irish.
Also, holy crap! Cliffhanger!!
これで以上です。
This post covers the prologue and chapters 1-4. Beneath the cut tags are write-ups of each, focusing on some of the main developments and my reactions thereto. I've written these as though I'm reading the book for the first time, so there are spoilers for each chapter--but nothing beyond said chapter--under each cut. That way, everyone can dive in and comment on the without having to worry about being spoiled for anything that comes later in the book. (That said, I absolutely want to discuss foreshadowing, red herrings, and how subsequent chapters and books build on events in this post in comments! Just be sure to flag any spoilers up front.)
Random thoughts before we get started: I love Carter's use of archaic spellings--they really help give a sense of place and time period. Also, we're in Bengal; why is no one speaking Bangla?
And with that out of the way, let's get started!
Prologue:Standard mystery novel scene setting with an ambiguous character POV. Moving on...
Chapter 1:Our introduction to Avery, Blake, and Macpherson! I love the interactions between Avery and Macpherson, and how Carter uses them to introduce readers to Calcutta and to the duo’s differing reactions to it. We’re already starting to see how Avery is a fish out of water, and how deeply he’s afflicted by culture shock (and how little he realizes it).
We’re also introduced to Mountstuart—1827-style influencer and disrupter, and the reason why Avery came to India in the first place. Up to this point I wasn’t very disposed to like Avery; Macpherson’s geeky enthusiasm and openness to other cultures was much more my thing. But then we find out that Avery’s a fanboy bookworm, which goes a long way toward reconciling him.
And his interactions with Blake—oof. Here is someone who seems cut from the reverse side of the same cloth as Avery: willing to go toe-to-toe in rudeness, and definitely not taking care of himself. Neither of them come out of this reaction looking good. It seems like maybe Macpherson would have been the better choice to coax Blake into accepting the Company’s letter? He certainly seems like he’d have more in common with Blake, if Blake has gone native to the degree he’s rumored to, and thus likelier to get off on a better foot with Blake.
Chapter 2:The levee! But before we get to that, woah, this is how Mountstuart reads? Is he really as good as everyone says he is? I wonder how much of that passage Macpherson ad libbed. ;-) Again, I love the interactions here between Avery and Macpherson. Avery’s kind of a babe in the woods; you wonder how well he would have managed without Macpherson’s steady(ing) influence.
And poor Avery! The levee finds him back in what should be familiar territory, but he’s still a fish out of water. His schoolboy crush on Helen is endearing, and she certainly seems to share his disdain for Indian culture. (Also, I like Mountstuart’s poetry much more than his prose.) But alas! Just as Avery looks poised to make headway with Helen, he’s called away once more…
...to deal with Blake, no less. Who’s as displeased to be thrown back into Avery’s company as Avery is to find himself back in Blake’s. That said, we start to see here that there’s more to Blake than initially meets the eye. We’ve had some intimations here and in the proceeding chapter that he’s hardly from a privileged background, and yet he apparently rose through the ranks to Captain; Avery, with his much better family background has done nothing but spin his wheels. Buchanan thinks Blake’s the man for an irregular, commando style mission into the backofbeyond, for all he looks ready to crumble into dust. And yet, neither does it seem that Buchanan trusts him, judging from the fact that he’s chosen very proper Company man Avery to go along as minder and erstwhile spy.
Chapter 3:Holy afjkds$#! I’d thought for sure that Avery and Macpherson were going to be the main duo, and now Macpherson’s dead?!? Now who is going to help Avery see India through less jaundiced eyes? (To say nothing of win over Blake with a mutual love of Indian culture to get to the bottom of whatever fishy business Blake may be involved with?) It looks like there was a side to Macpherson’s cultural and linguistic expertise that Avery was entirely unaware of. The funeral scene was really touching: you get a good sense of how isolated young Company recruits are from their families and any sort of support system. That scene in Avery’s now empty bungalow: oh, that hurts. We also get our first hint of Avery’s age: around 21. It’s another weight on Avery’s shoulders, along with his: (probable) alcoholism, gambling habit and the debts it’s caused, poor financial skills in general, culture shock and displacement from his family, and emotional estrangement and likely depression. And then you have people like Keefe who are all too aware of how to take advantage of people like Avery.
As do Avery’s servants...although 21st century me is quite happy to seem them getting their digs in at the callous and incurious Company drones. Grieving, hung over, and robbed: a not at all auspicious start to his mission. And here’s Blake, making it very clear to Avery he doesn’t want him there either. Avery’s going to have to learn Hindi quickly or find himself even more isolated.
The scene were he abandons his possessions is painful. It’s brilliantly written, and shows both how pompous and ill-suited to the environment British/Company culture is, and how painful this journey is going to be for Avery, from whom all the remaining signifiers of his status (such as it is) and self-respect are shorn.
And given a choice between all of it, he chooses his books. Oh, Avery.
Chapter 4:
Chapter 4 is where the book really took off for me. We really start to get a deeper sense of who Avery is, versus who he thinks he is or tries to be. His fumbling attempt to make peace with Blake (and Blake’s cutting dismissal), and how, in his spectating of Blake, he has the capacity for observation and insight. We also get further insights into Avery’s personality: that he’s a bona fide outdoorsy type (vice someone who’s into riding and shooting as appropriately masculine signifiers) and would probably be enjoying this outing more if he could just shake off his attachment to cultural signifiers.
And oh my god, can we talk about how cool it is that we don’t even know what Blake looks like until we’re 55 pages into the novel? I can’t think of another author who doesn’t info-dump that information right at the outset. And even the description we get here isn’t really all that descriptive! Blake’s eyes are “some mud shade, [we] suppose”? How many other authors would be brave enough to do this?
Mir Aziz is the surprise MVP here, taking Avery under his wing to mitigate Avery’s hurt and resentment of his treatment at Blake’s hands. I do wonder though, whether Blake is as disinterested in the mission as Avery makes him out to be: after all, Avery has no idea what Blake is saying to any of the Indians or caravan members, etc. they encounter. And if Mountstuart disappeared looking for Thugs, it makes sense that the people closest to Thuggee might be in a better position to know what happened to him.
Anyway, I love the travelogue quality of this chapter. We get a sense of the flora, the fauna, the inconveniences and nuisances the travelers face, how customs change from location to location, and how the inhabitants view and live in their world (versus how the Company perceives them). Blake sure does seem to know a lot of people, doesn’t he? It’s interesting that he seems to be much more well liked among the Indian populations than and European society.
Page 67, and Avery’s reaction to it, made me love him and love this book. XD XD XD
…Aaand then Avery undoes it by bullying Mir Aziz. What are you doing!? Mir Aziz is the only person in this group inclined to show you kindness! Why are you being such a d-bag to him? (And remember how angry you get when you feel the Indians aren’t showing you appropriate respect? Imagine that, only it’s your country that’s been invaded and colonized, and you’re forced to grow opium poppies instead of food that could feed your country, which happens to be on the brink of famine. And, just, yeah.
Between this and Avery’s conversation with the Company civilian, we are really getting a sense of the ruinous arrogance and hypocrisy of the Company’s approach.)
And then Avery regains our sympathy with his uncomplicated happiness at his reception by Jiggins et al. Avery is very much a people person, if not bona fide extrovert, and we get such a good sense of how much he’s been hurting for human interaction and companionship. And because he gets it, he gives away a little more than perhaps we should. Interesting tidbit about Blake—or maybe another Blake—getting drunk and cursing in Irish.
Also, holy crap! Cliffhanger!!
これで以上です。
From:
no subject
What I really love about Avery in this chapter is that he is, as you say, a dick, but he's a relatable dick. Like, his behavior is so standard for someone who's moved out of mom and dad's house to live on their own for the first time, and of his age, which is the age where he thinks he knows everything and are way more experienced than he is. And the Company is definitely not the thing and the environment that's going to jolt him out of his preconceptions and ways of thinking.
Avery and Helen's initial interaction is very telling, isn't it? They're both looking at each other as possible means to the ends they think they want (Avery: beautiful bride, and Helen: prestigious husband) and not what they actually want (a companion on their same wavelength). It's interesting to think about what might have happened had Avery not been sent on the mission with Blake, because he might have been more compatible with Helen then. The Devil's Feast makes clear she was after an improved standard of living, which is exactly why Avery came to India, too. It's a shame for Helen that his experiences in TSV jolt him out of that. And yes! Total intrigue as to why beautiful, engaging Helen needed to go all the way to India to find a husband, especially when we see in TDF that men in England are perfectly solicitous of her.
I really wonder what the rational was for sending Avery as the Company's messenger. They couldn't seriously have expected him to succeed, and must have known exactly what his reception at Blake's hands would look like. I would also love a look inside Carter's head at where Blake was mentally before that first meeting. I've no doubt he was deeply withdrawn and depressed, but go back and forth on how genuine his presentation of it was. I can see it being 100 percent genuine, but I can also see him frantically ginning up a grimy disguise on the other side of the door to horrify the self-important ensign who's been sent to irritate him. XD
And oh, that second meeting. Surprise! I'm always a bit bemused on rereads that it's Buchanan that sets it up and not Collinson, because it's such a Collinson power move. "Here, two people who hate each other! Have fun cooperating!" I was very taken with Blake's flat "no" in this scene, and how he and Avery race each other to quit before the other guy can fire them, so to speak. And yes, goals. You can just see the wheels spinning in Blake's head: Fine. But I'm only doing this because I want to travel India again and find Mountstuart, and you can't make me do anything else.
I also wonder how much Blake knew about the anti-Thuggee campaign at that point.
From:
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Oh, definitely. That's a really good point! I mean, I was an idiot when I was in my early twenties and I come from a far better situation than Avery does. That, coupled with the time and place that he's in, definitely works against him. In fact it's kind of a miracle that he does make so any strides later on in the books.
Yeah, it's sad that the same thing that enabled Avery to win Helen - the journey through India - is also the same thing that makes him an utterly terrible husband for her. It's not that either of them are bad people, it's just that they're coming at life from completely different angles after the first book and they're both helplessly stuck in that situation. One of the few faults with these books, at least to me, is that Carter isn't a little more understanding of Helen; she's also very much a product of her time, and has far fewer options than Avery does in that regard. If she doesn't have a husband she can do nothing, if she has a husband who fundamentally doesn't understand her then she's even worse off.
(One of the more out there ideas I play around with occasionally is that Helen is one of Collinson's spies. I know this would never happen! But I think it'd be fun.)
Oh, both are definitely options! I generally tend towards thinking that it's perfectly genuine, because I love the arc of Avery slowly bringing him back to life, but I also like him literally just doing it to screw with Avery. That seems a very Blake thing to do. XD
It really is such a Collinson move! It's interesting that he isn't around at that point, because he's such a master manipulator in that regard. And yeah, Blake really is just the absolute highlight of that scene. His absolute refusal to budge, and insistence on doing things only for his own ends, is really telling of how he's going to react to authority from now on. I also love him and Avery racing each other to quit! They're both so reluctant to do it, but I also wonder if the moment that Avery tried to get out of it was the moment that Blake started to pay attention to him.
From:
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Oh no. D: It's not much, but I am happy to keep squeeing about these books AT LENGTH for as long as it's entertaining.
Yes, this. Helen really gets a bum deal, to which we can later add a husband away in combat, a miscarriage, postpartum depression, and a husband clearly more concerned with "the sainted Blake" than her into the mix… And divorce is not a feasible option—particularly women—at that time. I hope that the lack of understanding is the limitation of Avery’s POV versus Carter’s treatment of Helen. I also admit to fearing that Avery might pursue Matty in a subsequent book, because TDF sure seemed to be inching in that direction at points. D:
(One of the more out there ideas I play around with occasionally is that Helen is one of Collinson's spies. I know this would never happen! But I think it'd be fun.)
I. Freaking. LOVE. THIS. It is such a fascinating and intriguing idea, and Avery, due to the limitations of his worldview, would never see it coming. What better cover than being the 1840’s equivalent of an airhead? It would kind of be his just desserts.
I think Blake was entirely depressed and withdrawn from the world, but I do kinda wonder how much of his physical decrepitude was genuine versus put on or played up to try to get the Company to believe him too feeble for any mission and leave him TF alone. Buchanan's "In a few days with both know you will be quite recovered from the fever and perfectly able to travel" stood out to me in that regard. And Blake does seem to recover pretty quickly once they're on the road, in contrast to his condition in later books where he's pretty genuinely not in the best of health.
I also wonder if the moment that Avery tried to get out of it was the moment that Blake started to pay attention to him.
Yeah, like, maybe Avery isn't 100 percent the pushover Company yes man Blake had at first assumed, and suddenly, the seed is planted...
From:
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I doubt the books will ever go canon with Blake/Avery, but that whole thing adds a really interesting angle in my head. How on earth is Helen supposed to deal with the fact that her husband is in love with another man, and in denial about it? She just has such a hard time, and is so crushed by her life and the decisions that were forced upon her. She didn't even want to leave Calcutta in the first place!
I also admit to fearing that Avery might pursue Matty in a subsequent book, because TDF sure seemed to be inching in that direction at points. D:
Oh God, I am glad we are equally dismayed about that prospect. D: I mean, I like them both! I just don't want to see them as a romantic couple in any way. Avery would only end up ruining her life and feeling awful about it, and I don't want that for either of them.
I. Freaking. LOVE. THIS. It is such a fascinating and intriguing idea, and Avery, due to the limitations of his worldview, would never see it coming. What better cover than being the 1840’s equivalent of an airhead? It would kind of be his just desserts.
Exactly! Again, it'll never happen, but... It would be SUCH a fun idea. :D I especially like the thought of Collinson marrying Helen to Avery basically as a way to get a far too promising agent (one who was starting to go the Blake route of having far too many independent thoughts of her own) out of the way, and Helen is not (only) bitter over the state of her marriage but also bitter over being basically cast aside.
I think Blake was entirely depressed and withdrawn from the world, but I do kinda wonder how much of his physical decrepitude was genuine versus put on or played up to try to get the Company to believe him too feeble for any mission and leave him TF alone.
Oh, I see what you mean! Yes, I can definitely see that. I picture Blake as always having slightly fragile health, but in the first book he seems a lot hardier than he is later. I can definitely see him attempting it as a last ditch method to get out of it.
maybe Avery isn't 100 percent the pushover Company yes man Blake had at first assumed, and suddenly, the seed is planted...
Blake would be the type to be intrigued by somebody being argumentative. XD
From:
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I doubt the books will ever go canon with Blake/Avery
I totally agree. I mean, Carter dedicated TSV to her sons. And yet. I read TSV pretty shortly after The Watchmaker of Filigree Street and The Goblin Emperor. The first one has canon m/m and the second has characters who the author has said are romantically interested in the male protagonist although she couldn't figure out how to explicitly work it into the narrative. Despite all that, I got equally strong/stronger m/m vibes from TSV than either of those books. Maybe it's because Carter inadvertently incorporates so many of my favorite fic tropes. Whatever the reason, they are there and I will happily work with them. XD
How on earth is Helen supposed to deal with the fact that her husband is in love with another man, and in denial about it?
And it's deeply unfair because contemporary society offered Avery/men so many more outlets than Helen/women if they found themselves in unhappy marriages, and it makes my teeth grind. I feel like Carter starts to explore this a bit in TDF and I hope any future books will look at it in even more detail. One of the fics I've been picking away at for ages began in part with the question, How does Helen get out of this situation in a way that gives her a happy end? Because she absolutely deserves it.
She didn't even want to leave Calcutta in the first place!
It's not clear she even wanted to go to Calcutta in the first place. One of the things I find really like about Helen is the somewhat mercenary way she racks and stacks her suitors. I find it really admirable. If society is going to make her ability to live comfortably solely dependent on her spouse, then she is going to choose her spouse largely for his ability to provide a comfortable lifestyle, social opprobrium be damned. Because it's absolutely rotten to give her just one way to obtain the life she wants and then criticize her as heartless for pursuing it.
Avery would only end up ruining her life and feeling awful about it, and I don't want that for either of them.
Or worse still, if his infidelity is what effects a reconciliation between him and Helen, which I don't believe is out of the realm of possibility in future books.
I especially like the thought of Collinson marrying Helen to Avery basically as a way to get a far too promising agent (one who was starting to go the Blake route of having far too many independent thoughts of her own) out of the way, and Helen is not (only) bitter over the state of her marriage but also bitter over being basically cast aside.
Particularly in an era when you do start to see women agitating for the social space to have more independent thoughts, as you say. That move would be a Very Collinson Thing To Do.TM
I picture Blake as always having slightly fragile health, but in the first book he seems a lot hardier than he is later.
Yeah, his rookery childhood, then imprisonment, then transportation were probably not a great start to life from an overall health perspective. My headcanon is that India definitely sees him at his healthiest: more physical activity, possibly better food, better air quality, and for at least some of the time, a better mental state. He does seem to go downhill precipitously in later volumes.
From:
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And it's deeply unfair because contemporary society offered Avery/men so many more outlets than Helen/women if they found themselves in unhappy marriages, and it makes my teeth grind.
Definitely! It was the kind of time period where men were almost expected to fuck around outside of their marriages, even if they were relatively happy. If they were actively unhappy, then they could do anything they please and it wouldn't be their fault at all. While women couldn't even look at another man without risking their reputation...
One of the things I find really like about Helen is the somewhat mercenary way she racks and stacks her suitors. I find it really admirable. If society is going to make her ability to live comfortably solely dependent on her spouse, then she is going to choose her spouse largely for his ability to provide a comfortable lifestyle, social opprobrium be damned.
I like that too! She's very casually ambitious and focused on making herself comfortable, and honestly I find that great about her. She's very, very much a realist in a lot of ways; and while that clashes with poor Avery quite a lot, who obviously thought that he was marrying for love and only later figured out that Helen was marrying based largely on practical considerations, I cannot fault her for it at all. I would kill to see Helen interacting with Blake a bit more, and with Matty too!
Or worse still, if his infidelity is what effects a reconciliation between him and Helen, which I don't believe is out of the realm of possibility in future books.
Oh, nooooo. I mean, I'm not that much of a fan of infidelity as a plot device anyway... But at least have Avery have an affair with Blake, instead of dragging all these poor innocent women into it!
Particularly in an era when you do start to see women agitating for the social space to have more independent thoughts, as you say. That move would be a Very Collinson Thing To Do.TM
I must admit, that I do have a fairly involved fic idea in my head that involves Helen somehow being revealed as a former spy - perhaps due to a murder that she ends up having to investigate with Matty - and being convinced to work with Blake & Avery to bring Collinson down. It would be literally novel length, which is why I haven't even attempted to write it, but I still regularly return to play around with it. XD
From:
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I suppose it's easier to be relatively happy though when the inadvisable stuff you do really isn't your fault; it's just, society expects it of you so you really don't have a choice and might as well anyway. *extreme side eye*
If they were actively unhappy, then they could do anything they please and it wouldn't be their fault at all. While women couldn't even look at another man without risking their reputation...
Yes, and the risk ultimately originates in this idea of men not being trustworthy or able to control or restrain themselves around women, which. Wouldn't that argue for cloistering men away from society? It's also patently false, but again, the narrative sure let some bad actors live their best lives at the expense of pretty much everyone else.
She's very casually ambitious and focused on making herself comfortable, and honestly I find that great about her.
Yes! And again, I don't see anything different between Helen's ambition in that regard, and Avery's, seeing as this is the guy who went to India precisely to get 1) money, 2) status, 3) status symbol spouse. It's entirely arbitrary that his choice is generally considered rational, adventurous, etc. while women who pursue those goals (and are forced to do it in the reverse order) are seen very negatively for doing so.
She's very, very much a realist in a lot of ways; and while that clashes with poor Avery quite a lot, who obviously thought that he was marrying for love and only later figured out that Helen was marrying based largely on practical considerations, I cannot fault her for it at all.
To say nothing of the fact that Avery's definition of love largely boils down to "I think you're purdy," which (skipping ahead of things here) is what Blake explicitly warns him about! And the thing is, Avery on one level always knew she was choosing based on practical considerations: that's why she favored Keay before his departure, and Avery acknowledged as much. So it's a bit self-deceptive and self-serving on his part to convince himself otherwise when she very directly ends that engagement to marry the guy (i.e. Avery) with better prospects.
I'm not that much of a fan of infidelity as a plot device anyway... But at least have Avery have an affair with Blake, instead of dragging all these poor innocent women into it!
Yes, agreed. And at least some of my impatience with and dislike of it comes from the fact that it's so often been used as a cheap plot catalyst for the male protagonist's personal growth.
I must admit, that I do have a fairly involved fic idea in my head that involves Helen somehow being revealed as a former spy - perhaps due to a murder that she ends up having to investigate with Matty - and being convinced to work with Blake & Avery to bring Collinson down. It would be literally novel length, which is why I haven't even attempted to write it, but I still regularly return to play around with it. XD
I know I sound like a broken record, but I WOULD ABSOLUTELY READ THIS. It's such a fascinating idea, and I love the thought of Matty and Helen being just as effective as the boys (and perhaps society's low expectations of what they're capable of even amplifying that effectiveness)!
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Yes! It's SO FRUSTRATING. Men are allowed to do anything, because there's this really intense atmosphere of boys will be boys and men know best, and that goes double if they're upper class and white and have even the slightest bit of money. It's incredibly disgusting.
To say nothing of the fact that Avery's definition of love largely boils down to "I think you're purdy," which (skipping ahead of things here) is what Blake explicitly warns him about! And the thing is, Avery on one level always knew she was choosing based on practical considerations: that's why she favored Keay before his departure, and Avery acknowledged as much. So it's a bit self-deceptive and self-serving on his part to convince himself otherwise when she very directly ends that engagement to marry the guy (i.e. Avery) with better prospects.
It is! The double standards in the situation are just awful. Helen is doing exactly the same thing as Avery was, but is judged for it. Helen is also only the slightest bit more depressed than Avery with her situation in the second two books, and yet again she is judged for it while Avery gets a lot of sympathy. It really doesn't seem fair. And yeah, she did say a little spiel about how she always favoured him secretly and he was the choice of her heart... But come on, anybody could've seen through that!
Yes, agreed. And at least some of my impatience with and dislike of it comes from the fact that it's so often been used as a cheap plot catalyst for the male protagonist's personal growth.
Is is, isn't it? And it just annoys me. Maybe you can tell an interesting infidelity plot, though I must admit that I've never read one myself, but I'm even more against it when it's just a way to somehow redeem the man. He does an extremely shitty thing, but he regrets it afterwards so obviously that's fine!
I know I sound like a broken record, but I WOULD ABSOLUTELY READ THIS. It's such a fascinating idea, and I love the thought of Matty and Helen being just as effective as the boys (and perhaps society's low expectations of what they're capable of even amplifying that effectiveness)!
I'm glad! :D I always mean to write more Matty & Helen (and Matty/Helen, for that matter). I think the two of them together could lead to an even more interesting examination of power in society. Because nobody pays attention to women, especially if they're married or a servant, and so they'd basically be able to solve crimes unseen.
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I know this is OT, but please tell me more about this!
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