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lebateleur Feb. 5th, 2021 08:07 pm)
lebateleur Feb. 5th, 2021 08:07 pm)TGIF! And what better way to celebrate the weekend than with the first Blake & Avery sync read post for The Strangler Vine.
This post covers the prologue and chapters 1-4. Beneath the cut tags are write-ups of each, focusing on some of the main developments and my reactions thereto. I've written these as though I'm reading the book for the first time, so there are spoilers for each chapter--but nothing beyond said chapter--under each cut. That way, everyone can dive in and comment on the without having to worry about being spoiled for anything that comes later in the book. (That said, I absolutely want to discuss foreshadowing, red herrings, and how subsequent chapters and books build on events in this post in comments! Just be sure to flag any spoilers up front.)
Random thoughts before we get started: I love Carter's use of archaic spellings--they really help give a sense of place and time period. Also, we're in Bengal; why is no one speaking Bangla?
And with that out of the way, let's get started!
Prologue:Standard mystery novel scene setting with an ambiguous character POV. Moving on...
Chapter 1:Our introduction to Avery, Blake, and Macpherson! I love the interactions between Avery and Macpherson, and how Carter uses them to introduce readers to Calcutta and to the duo’s differing reactions to it. We’re already starting to see how Avery is a fish out of water, and how deeply he’s afflicted by culture shock (and how little he realizes it).
We’re also introduced to Mountstuart—1827-style influencer and disrupter, and the reason why Avery came to India in the first place. Up to this point I wasn’t very disposed to like Avery; Macpherson’s geeky enthusiasm and openness to other cultures was much more my thing. But then we find out that Avery’s a fanboy bookworm, which goes a long way toward reconciling him.
And his interactions with Blake—oof. Here is someone who seems cut from the reverse side of the same cloth as Avery: willing to go toe-to-toe in rudeness, and definitely not taking care of himself. Neither of them come out of this reaction looking good. It seems like maybe Macpherson would have been the better choice to coax Blake into accepting the Company’s letter? He certainly seems like he’d have more in common with Blake, if Blake has gone native to the degree he’s rumored to, and thus likelier to get off on a better foot with Blake.
Chapter 2:The levee! But before we get to that, woah, this is how Mountstuart reads? Is he really as good as everyone says he is? I wonder how much of that passage Macpherson ad libbed. ;-) Again, I love the interactions here between Avery and Macpherson. Avery’s kind of a babe in the woods; you wonder how well he would have managed without Macpherson’s steady(ing) influence.
And poor Avery! The levee finds him back in what should be familiar territory, but he’s still a fish out of water. His schoolboy crush on Helen is endearing, and she certainly seems to share his disdain for Indian culture. (Also, I like Mountstuart’s poetry much more than his prose.) But alas! Just as Avery looks poised to make headway with Helen, he’s called away once more…
...to deal with Blake, no less. Who’s as displeased to be thrown back into Avery’s company as Avery is to find himself back in Blake’s. That said, we start to see here that there’s more to Blake than initially meets the eye. We’ve had some intimations here and in the proceeding chapter that he’s hardly from a privileged background, and yet he apparently rose through the ranks to Captain; Avery, with his much better family background has done nothing but spin his wheels. Buchanan thinks Blake’s the man for an irregular, commando style mission into the backofbeyond, for all he looks ready to crumble into dust. And yet, neither does it seem that Buchanan trusts him, judging from the fact that he’s chosen very proper Company man Avery to go along as minder and erstwhile spy.
Chapter 3:Holy afjkds$#! I’d thought for sure that Avery and Macpherson were going to be the main duo, and now Macpherson’s dead?!? Now who is going to help Avery see India through less jaundiced eyes? (To say nothing of win over Blake with a mutual love of Indian culture to get to the bottom of whatever fishy business Blake may be involved with?) It looks like there was a side to Macpherson’s cultural and linguistic expertise that Avery was entirely unaware of. The funeral scene was really touching: you get a good sense of how isolated young Company recruits are from their families and any sort of support system. That scene in Avery’s now empty bungalow: oh, that hurts. We also get our first hint of Avery’s age: around 21. It’s another weight on Avery’s shoulders, along with his: (probable) alcoholism, gambling habit and the debts it’s caused, poor financial skills in general, culture shock and displacement from his family, and emotional estrangement and likely depression. And then you have people like Keefe who are all too aware of how to take advantage of people like Avery.
As do Avery’s servants...although 21st century me is quite happy to seem them getting their digs in at the callous and incurious Company drones. Grieving, hung over, and robbed: a not at all auspicious start to his mission. And here’s Blake, making it very clear to Avery he doesn’t want him there either. Avery’s going to have to learn Hindi quickly or find himself even more isolated.
The scene were he abandons his possessions is painful. It’s brilliantly written, and shows both how pompous and ill-suited to the environment British/Company culture is, and how painful this journey is going to be for Avery, from whom all the remaining signifiers of his status (such as it is) and self-respect are shorn.
And given a choice between all of it, he chooses his books. Oh, Avery.
Chapter 4:
Chapter 4 is where the book really took off for me. We really start to get a deeper sense of who Avery is, versus who he thinks he is or tries to be. His fumbling attempt to make peace with Blake (and Blake’s cutting dismissal), and how, in his spectating of Blake, he has the capacity for observation and insight. We also get further insights into Avery’s personality: that he’s a bona fide outdoorsy type (vice someone who’s into riding and shooting as appropriately masculine signifiers) and would probably be enjoying this outing more if he could just shake off his attachment to cultural signifiers.
And oh my god, can we talk about how cool it is that we don’t even know what Blake looks like until we’re 55 pages into the novel? I can’t think of another author who doesn’t info-dump that information right at the outset. And even the description we get here isn’t really all that descriptive! Blake’s eyes are “some mud shade, [we] suppose”? How many other authors would be brave enough to do this?
Mir Aziz is the surprise MVP here, taking Avery under his wing to mitigate Avery’s hurt and resentment of his treatment at Blake’s hands. I do wonder though, whether Blake is as disinterested in the mission as Avery makes him out to be: after all, Avery has no idea what Blake is saying to any of the Indians or caravan members, etc. they encounter. And if Mountstuart disappeared looking for Thugs, it makes sense that the people closest to Thuggee might be in a better position to know what happened to him.
Anyway, I love the travelogue quality of this chapter. We get a sense of the flora, the fauna, the inconveniences and nuisances the travelers face, how customs change from location to location, and how the inhabitants view and live in their world (versus how the Company perceives them). Blake sure does seem to know a lot of people, doesn’t he? It’s interesting that he seems to be much more well liked among the Indian populations than and European society.
Page 67, and Avery’s reaction to it, made me love him and love this book. XD XD XD
…Aaand then Avery undoes it by bullying Mir Aziz. What are you doing!? Mir Aziz is the only person in this group inclined to show you kindness! Why are you being such a d-bag to him? (And remember how angry you get when you feel the Indians aren’t showing you appropriate respect? Imagine that, only it’s your country that’s been invaded and colonized, and you’re forced to grow opium poppies instead of food that could feed your country, which happens to be on the brink of famine. And, just, yeah.
Between this and Avery’s conversation with the Company civilian, we are really getting a sense of the ruinous arrogance and hypocrisy of the Company’s approach.)
And then Avery regains our sympathy with his uncomplicated happiness at his reception by Jiggins et al. Avery is very much a people person, if not bona fide extrovert, and we get such a good sense of how much he’s been hurting for human interaction and companionship. And because he gets it, he gives away a little more than perhaps we should. Interesting tidbit about Blake—or maybe another Blake—getting drunk and cursing in Irish.
Also, holy crap! Cliffhanger!!
これで以上です。
This post covers the prologue and chapters 1-4. Beneath the cut tags are write-ups of each, focusing on some of the main developments and my reactions thereto. I've written these as though I'm reading the book for the first time, so there are spoilers for each chapter--but nothing beyond said chapter--under each cut. That way, everyone can dive in and comment on the without having to worry about being spoiled for anything that comes later in the book. (That said, I absolutely want to discuss foreshadowing, red herrings, and how subsequent chapters and books build on events in this post in comments! Just be sure to flag any spoilers up front.)
Random thoughts before we get started: I love Carter's use of archaic spellings--they really help give a sense of place and time period. Also, we're in Bengal; why is no one speaking Bangla?
And with that out of the way, let's get started!
Prologue:Standard mystery novel scene setting with an ambiguous character POV. Moving on...
Chapter 1:Our introduction to Avery, Blake, and Macpherson! I love the interactions between Avery and Macpherson, and how Carter uses them to introduce readers to Calcutta and to the duo’s differing reactions to it. We’re already starting to see how Avery is a fish out of water, and how deeply he’s afflicted by culture shock (and how little he realizes it).
We’re also introduced to Mountstuart—1827-style influencer and disrupter, and the reason why Avery came to India in the first place. Up to this point I wasn’t very disposed to like Avery; Macpherson’s geeky enthusiasm and openness to other cultures was much more my thing. But then we find out that Avery’s a fanboy bookworm, which goes a long way toward reconciling him.
And his interactions with Blake—oof. Here is someone who seems cut from the reverse side of the same cloth as Avery: willing to go toe-to-toe in rudeness, and definitely not taking care of himself. Neither of them come out of this reaction looking good. It seems like maybe Macpherson would have been the better choice to coax Blake into accepting the Company’s letter? He certainly seems like he’d have more in common with Blake, if Blake has gone native to the degree he’s rumored to, and thus likelier to get off on a better foot with Blake.
Chapter 2:The levee! But before we get to that, woah, this is how Mountstuart reads? Is he really as good as everyone says he is? I wonder how much of that passage Macpherson ad libbed. ;-) Again, I love the interactions here between Avery and Macpherson. Avery’s kind of a babe in the woods; you wonder how well he would have managed without Macpherson’s steady(ing) influence.
And poor Avery! The levee finds him back in what should be familiar territory, but he’s still a fish out of water. His schoolboy crush on Helen is endearing, and she certainly seems to share his disdain for Indian culture. (Also, I like Mountstuart’s poetry much more than his prose.) But alas! Just as Avery looks poised to make headway with Helen, he’s called away once more…
...to deal with Blake, no less. Who’s as displeased to be thrown back into Avery’s company as Avery is to find himself back in Blake’s. That said, we start to see here that there’s more to Blake than initially meets the eye. We’ve had some intimations here and in the proceeding chapter that he’s hardly from a privileged background, and yet he apparently rose through the ranks to Captain; Avery, with his much better family background has done nothing but spin his wheels. Buchanan thinks Blake’s the man for an irregular, commando style mission into the backofbeyond, for all he looks ready to crumble into dust. And yet, neither does it seem that Buchanan trusts him, judging from the fact that he’s chosen very proper Company man Avery to go along as minder and erstwhile spy.
Chapter 3:Holy afjkds$#! I’d thought for sure that Avery and Macpherson were going to be the main duo, and now Macpherson’s dead?!? Now who is going to help Avery see India through less jaundiced eyes? (To say nothing of win over Blake with a mutual love of Indian culture to get to the bottom of whatever fishy business Blake may be involved with?) It looks like there was a side to Macpherson’s cultural and linguistic expertise that Avery was entirely unaware of. The funeral scene was really touching: you get a good sense of how isolated young Company recruits are from their families and any sort of support system. That scene in Avery’s now empty bungalow: oh, that hurts. We also get our first hint of Avery’s age: around 21. It’s another weight on Avery’s shoulders, along with his: (probable) alcoholism, gambling habit and the debts it’s caused, poor financial skills in general, culture shock and displacement from his family, and emotional estrangement and likely depression. And then you have people like Keefe who are all too aware of how to take advantage of people like Avery.
As do Avery’s servants...although 21st century me is quite happy to seem them getting their digs in at the callous and incurious Company drones. Grieving, hung over, and robbed: a not at all auspicious start to his mission. And here’s Blake, making it very clear to Avery he doesn’t want him there either. Avery’s going to have to learn Hindi quickly or find himself even more isolated.
The scene were he abandons his possessions is painful. It’s brilliantly written, and shows both how pompous and ill-suited to the environment British/Company culture is, and how painful this journey is going to be for Avery, from whom all the remaining signifiers of his status (such as it is) and self-respect are shorn.
And given a choice between all of it, he chooses his books. Oh, Avery.
Chapter 4:
Chapter 4 is where the book really took off for me. We really start to get a deeper sense of who Avery is, versus who he thinks he is or tries to be. His fumbling attempt to make peace with Blake (and Blake’s cutting dismissal), and how, in his spectating of Blake, he has the capacity for observation and insight. We also get further insights into Avery’s personality: that he’s a bona fide outdoorsy type (vice someone who’s into riding and shooting as appropriately masculine signifiers) and would probably be enjoying this outing more if he could just shake off his attachment to cultural signifiers.
And oh my god, can we talk about how cool it is that we don’t even know what Blake looks like until we’re 55 pages into the novel? I can’t think of another author who doesn’t info-dump that information right at the outset. And even the description we get here isn’t really all that descriptive! Blake’s eyes are “some mud shade, [we] suppose”? How many other authors would be brave enough to do this?
Mir Aziz is the surprise MVP here, taking Avery under his wing to mitigate Avery’s hurt and resentment of his treatment at Blake’s hands. I do wonder though, whether Blake is as disinterested in the mission as Avery makes him out to be: after all, Avery has no idea what Blake is saying to any of the Indians or caravan members, etc. they encounter. And if Mountstuart disappeared looking for Thugs, it makes sense that the people closest to Thuggee might be in a better position to know what happened to him.
Anyway, I love the travelogue quality of this chapter. We get a sense of the flora, the fauna, the inconveniences and nuisances the travelers face, how customs change from location to location, and how the inhabitants view and live in their world (versus how the Company perceives them). Blake sure does seem to know a lot of people, doesn’t he? It’s interesting that he seems to be much more well liked among the Indian populations than and European society.
Page 67, and Avery’s reaction to it, made me love him and love this book. XD XD XD
…Aaand then Avery undoes it by bullying Mir Aziz. What are you doing!? Mir Aziz is the only person in this group inclined to show you kindness! Why are you being such a d-bag to him? (And remember how angry you get when you feel the Indians aren’t showing you appropriate respect? Imagine that, only it’s your country that’s been invaded and colonized, and you’re forced to grow opium poppies instead of food that could feed your country, which happens to be on the brink of famine. And, just, yeah.
Between this and Avery’s conversation with the Company civilian, we are really getting a sense of the ruinous arrogance and hypocrisy of the Company’s approach.)
And then Avery regains our sympathy with his uncomplicated happiness at his reception by Jiggins et al. Avery is very much a people person, if not bona fide extrovert, and we get such a good sense of how much he’s been hurting for human interaction and companionship. And because he gets it, he gives away a little more than perhaps we should. Interesting tidbit about Blake—or maybe another Blake—getting drunk and cursing in Irish.
Also, holy crap! Cliffhanger!!
これで以上です。
From:
no subject
Their meeting in the first chapter really doesn't go well, does it? I love how they're both thoroughly being dicks throughout it, and also how they both give as good as they get. Avery is generally unpleasant to everybody around him in this chapter, it's true. I love him as a character, but that's a great deal due to the way that Carter unfurls him throughout the book. He's not a bad person, but he's very set in his ways and needs to be given the opportunity to move beyond that.
I find the levee really interesting. Avery's crush on Helen is adorable, but it's very clear that they don't actually see each other properly. She sees him as yet another suitor, and not a particularly appealing one at that despite the things they have in common, while he sees her as an idealised beauty and not an actual thinking person. We don't get a lot of Helen through the books, she's kept almost deliberately a cipher, but I do like her - despite her terrible views - and would like to know more about her. You have to wonder why she had to become part of the fishing fleet to find a husband.
And the second meeting of Blake and Avery! You feel really sorry for both of them, forced into this situation that they have no way out of. I find it really interesting how they both express that they don't want to go with each other, their antipathy towards each other at the beginning really enhances how close they grow to each other later! This was also the scene where I think I started to fall head over heels for Blake. He's such a dick, and cares so little for society even when it has power over him. Goals, quite frankly. XD
Looking forward to reading the rest of it! I'll hopefully have a little more time next week, so I look forward to updating with my impressions.
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I already really like Mir Aziz. The one ally that poor Avery has at the moment!
From:
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And not just his money! His pocket watch that he loves and dad's signet ring, i.e., a symbol of his family that he dearly misses and his father, whose approval he craves (as Blake will soon illustrate with that vicious takedown in a few chapters).
Plus, he has to deal with the thought that as low as he's gone, Frank apparently went lower and didn't trust Avery enough to confide in him. IOW, even the guy he thought was his bff wasn't that close of a friend at all (at least as far as Avery knows).
Mir Aziz's taking Avery under his wing is a good deal more poignant and sinister in retrospect than it initially appeared when I first read the books.
From:
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And poor Avery and Frank. :( Avery is just so betrayed by the information being presented to him. I do love that he tries to argue back against it, even when all the evidence is there.
I knooooooow. Aziz is such a fascinating character, I'm looking forward to seeing more of him.
From:
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I love outdoorsman Avery! I think I grow fonder and fonder of him through the book, but I think seeing his obvious fondness for the outdoors and doing practical stuff is where I truly started to like him. I don't know why, considering that I am a true homebody myself XD, but somehow him not caring at all for the city atmosphere is just really endearing. I also loved that he has flashes of insight even at this early stage, that maybe he really would like India a lot better if he could lay all his toxic expectations aside.
The description of Blake is great, and again shows Avery to be a lot more sensitive and observant than he's been acting so far. I was particularly interested in two quotes. The first: "I suppose some might have called him handsome - in a coarse and common way", for shippy purposes of course. XD (There is literally no reason to think that he's handsome, Avery! Nobody else in the books seems to agree with you, Avery!) The second: "He carried about with him an air of what, for lack of a better word, I called insolence, but which I felt as the days passed was more a sceptical irritation with the world", because it sums up my affection for Blake's character so well.
Avery getting shot down by Blake is just PAINFUL. I think both of them are at fault in this interaction yet again. They're both making a lot of assumptions about each other, and both trying to drive each other away to varying degrees. It's a miracle that they ever grow closer, given all of that!
Another thing that I love about this scene is we get to see Blake's deductions for the first time. You can tell how much fun Carter is having writing a proto Sherlock figure, and I find it really sweet.
Aziz and Avery's bond is very sweet so far! I like that Avery has somebody looking out for him, even if he doesn't deserve it all the time.
Avery loudly insisting on wearing company uniform in Blake's hearing is hilarious. If this was a TV adaptation I could just imagine the shot of Blake rolling his eyes. XD
I like Sameer! If he and Avery weren't so very divided by everything I actually think they'd probably get on extremely well.
"His lordship would not have that" they hate each other so much at this point!
Blake as a former soldier is v interesting! It's not something that I consider absolutely key to any conception of his character, considering that there's so much other juicy stuff coming up, but it's still absolutely fascinating. It could also lead to some really interesting fic ideas, from the porny (I can imagine Avery going weak kneed at the sight of Blake in a proper uniform, ngl) to a more sober look at how being soldiers has influenced the both of them.
Don't be mean to Aziz, Avery! :( It's such a dick move, and the fact that he feels terrible about it afterwards hardly makes things any better.
“Some kind of poor-house prodigy” is an interesting look at Blake’s low origins, that we’re going to find out more about later. Interesting that he basically speaks everything, and a big part of him that I love. Also interesting that he once allowed himself to be drunk and out of control, in contrast to the fact that he's so tightly controlled through all the books. Do we ever get to see Blake get casually drunk in canon? I don't think so, and it speaks a lot to how he's gotten so beaten down by life.
I'm already remembering why I love these books so much! :D Some very good stuff coming up over the next few chapters.
From:
no subject
Absolutely! It’s the first time where readers get to see him doing something well—up to that point it was an open question as to whether he’s good at anything aside from complaining, drinking, and sucking at gambling, but here we get confirmation that he’s mismatched to his environment versus being someone who just wants a life of privilege and/or “natives” waiting on him hand and foot. His realization that, had he been in Devon, he would have been enjoying himself is pretty revealing. So yes, toxic expectations noted, although perhaps not fully dealt with yet. ;)
(There is literally no reason to think that he's handsome, Avery! Nobody else in the books seems to agree with you, Avery!)
YOU CERTAINLY ARE WATCHING SOMEONE YOU DISLIKE VERY CLOSELY FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER, AVERY. I mean, just, yeah. XD It’s really his first toe in the water of, Maybe this guy is kinda okay? Just a teeeensy bit? Not that I’d ever tell him or anything, but perhaps not the devil incarnate? XD XD XD
Those are such a great, defining quotes for Blake, definitely. I also love the description of Blake as always busy, always too preoccupied to approach, someone who does his best to make people leave him alone from square one to protect himself from further pain and disappointment. I mean, this is someone who tries to maneuver a horse between himself and Avery to get Avery to stop trying to speak to him. It really sets the ground for how Avery manages to break through, just by his stubborn insistence to not be permanently put off by Blake.
It's a miracle that they ever grow closer, given all of that!
No kidding, particularly given that they could just have easily been at each other's throats by the end of the journey, given that they're basically stuck with each other 24-7 on the enforced road trip from hell. Add to that the "You don't know me and you don't know anything about me" resentment they're clearly both feeling in response to the assumptions they're making about each other and it is...not a recipe for ever getting along well. It's amazing Avery doesn't permanently storm off to the Company men and Blake permanently refuse to speak any English after the first week or so.
Another thing that I love about this scene is we get to see Blake's deductions for the first time.
Yes! And unlike in an upcoming chapter, he pretty obviously thinks he has Avery pegged. And yet. It goes a long way toward explaining why Blake puts up with him at all: he doesn't want to acknowledge Avery at all because he's so clearly ill-equipped to help Blake track down Mountstuart, but there's something about him he can't fully figure out, and he keeps watching despite himself because he can't let it rest until he puzzles it out.
Avery loudly insisting on wearing company uniform in Blake's hearing is hilarious. If this was a TV adaptation I could just imagine the shot of Blake rolling his eyes. XD
This is such a great mental image! And talk about something tailor made to exacerbate Blake's "skeptical irritation with the world." ^^; To your point below, it makes me wonder what kind of soldier Blake was. He made captain, so clearly someone in the system thought he was effective enough to promote him that high despite his lacking even the tenuous connections Avery has. But I can't imagine Blake would have tolerated that sort of ceremony or procedure for its own sake; I wonder how many enemies it made him.
And yes. Avery losing his composure at the sight of Blake in uniform is something I CAN VERY MUCH GET BEHIND AND SUPPORT. I enthusiastically admit that the bit in TDF where Avery refers to them as "both accustomed to command" gave me IDEAS FOR DAEYZ. And just, yes. This needs to be explored more.
From:
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Definitely! I mean, Blake definitely remains the more competent of these two throughout all the books, but Avery definitely isn't an incompetent person. He just doesn't deal at all well with inactivity, when he's actually given something to do and/or challenged in any way he's more than likely to rise to the occasion admirably. He definitely does have so much toxic stuff to work through, but already we can see that he doesn't exactly regard anybody as inherently lesser than him; he just has a lot of working through his society induced biases to actually get to the point where that's obvious.
YOU CERTAINLY ARE WATCHING SOMEONE YOU DISLIKE VERY CLOSELY FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER, AVERY.
He is! XD I mean, I can tell you for a fact that I do not know the eye colours of any of the people I actually hate. He does try to play it off as having very little else to do, but that's just not true! Blake and Avery are still very different at this point, but I think their mutual desire to KNOW things - even if Avery isn't always aware of that desire - is definitely an area of bonding for them.
I also love the description of Blake as always busy, always too preoccupied to approach, someone who does his best to make people leave him alone from square one to protect himself from further pain and disappointment. I mean, this is someone who tries to maneuver a horse between himself and Avery to get Avery to stop trying to speak to him. It really sets the ground for how Avery manages to break through, just by his stubborn insistence to not be permanently put off by Blake.
Agreed on all of this! I get the sense that Blake was never exactly an extrovert, but everything he's been through has definitely made him a man who pushes others away because he thinks that any connection can only end in pain and heartbreak. And I think that's definitely why they bond in the end, Avery SHOULD be put off by Blake's deliberate attempts to put him off but he isn't. Every time he's shoved back he just sulks for half a second, and then immediately goes running after Blake again. It's just adorable, really. XD
It goes a long way toward explaining why Blake puts up with him at all: he doesn't want to acknowledge Avery at all because he's so clearly ill-equipped to help Blake track down Mountstuart, but there's something about him he can't fully figure out, and he keeps watching despite himself because he can't let it rest until he puzzles it out.
Definitely! The entire bond between them starts because Blake so desperately wants to put Avery into a neat little box, and then Avery keeps clambering out of that neat little box every single time. He's a puzzle, and in trying to figure out that puzzle I can see Blake falling head over heels for him.
it makes me wonder what kind of soldier Blake was. He made captain, so clearly someone in the system thought he was effective enough to promote him that high despite his lacking even the tenuous connections Avery has.
It is a really interesting thought! I have so much curiosity about what Blake was like when he was younger, before all the life was beaten out of him. I can't imagine him getting on very well with either authority or power structures, and definitely can't imagine him being on board with the whole colonialism angle, but I can imagine him being extremely close to the men underneath him. It's a very interesting thing to think about.
very losing his composure at the sight of Blake in uniform is something I CAN VERY MUCH GET BEHIND AND SUPPORT. I enthusiastically admit that the bit in TDF where Avery refers to them as "both accustomed to command" gave me IDEAS FOR DAEYZ
I am very glad that you like this idea! XD And oooooh, that is definitely one of my favourite lines and really does have SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES. I can imagine Avery being guiltily into being ordered around in bed, and Blake being just as guiltily into doing the ordering...
From:
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Avery definitely isn't an incompetent person. He just doesn't deal at all well with inactivity, when he's actually given something to do and/or challenged in any way he's more than likely to rise to the occasion admirably. He definitely does have so much toxic stuff to work through
And Calcutta is really not helping in this regard. He's such a people person who wants to fit in and get on with others. Add to that the pressure of trying to better his social standing in a place where society has largely agreed that the idler you are, the higher-quality you are, and that "natives" should be doing everything anyway. All that adds extra pressure on him to be idle, which makes him feel worse, which brings more of his worst qualities to the fore...
I can tell you for a fact that I do not know the eye colours of any of the people I actually hate.
You mean you don't spend a lot of time looking into them for as long as you're able, as Avery apparently does? XD
He does try to play it off as having very little else to do, but that's just not true!
Exactly. We know he spends a lot of time with Mir Aziz, and that he's got a lot in common with Sameer and will eventually realize that and grow closer to him too. But Blake is the guy he spends time thinking about.
I get the sense that Blake was never exactly an extrovert,
Which I very much agree with. To me, it's telling that he "swears like an Irish sailor" or whatever when he's drunk--that strikes me as classic "introvert who wants to get along but doesn't know how to calibrate drinking and human interaction in social events and overdoes it."
Every time he's shoved back he just sulks for half a second, and then immediately goes running after Blake again. It's just adorable, really. XD
Every time Blake thinks he's finally succeeded, nope, there's Avery again, like the Energizer Bunny...
I can't imagine him getting on very well with either authority or power structures, and definitely can't imagine him being on board with the whole colonialism angle, but I can imagine him being extremely close to the men underneath him.
I agree, this would be fascinating to see. At Sleeman's dinner party he says something about "would have agreed once" with the planters' opinions on colonial rule and the Indians' need of it. And that makes sense, he came to India from the bottom of the heap of European social hierarchy and now here's his chance to not be at the bottom anymore. It's a dynamic that's still at play today, unfortunately, so not at all surprising to find it back then. But as you say, I think he'd absolutely feel closer to and more commonality with the men beneath him than the Company bigwigs, and that's where the colonialism angle loses him.
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Blake hating people, but kind of wanting to know how they tick anyway, is yet another reason why I love him. <33
Every time Blake thinks he's finally succeeded, nope, there's Avery again, like the Energizer Bunny...
Heh, definitely! Blake just keeps trying to bat Avery back, even in the later books, and Avery just keeps returning with affection. Just let him adore you, Blake! XD
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What I really love about Avery in this chapter is that he is, as you say, a dick, but he's a relatable dick. Like, his behavior is so standard for someone who's moved out of mom and dad's house to live on their own for the first time, and of his age, which is the age where he thinks he knows everything and are way more experienced than he is. And the Company is definitely not the thing and the environment that's going to jolt him out of his preconceptions and ways of thinking.
Avery and Helen's initial interaction is very telling, isn't it? They're both looking at each other as possible means to the ends they think they want (Avery: beautiful bride, and Helen: prestigious husband) and not what they actually want (a companion on their same wavelength). It's interesting to think about what might have happened had Avery not been sent on the mission with Blake, because he might have been more compatible with Helen then. The Devil's Feast makes clear she was after an improved standard of living, which is exactly why Avery came to India, too. It's a shame for Helen that his experiences in TSV jolt him out of that. And yes! Total intrigue as to why beautiful, engaging Helen needed to go all the way to India to find a husband, especially when we see in TDF that men in England are perfectly solicitous of her.
I really wonder what the rational was for sending Avery as the Company's messenger. They couldn't seriously have expected him to succeed, and must have known exactly what his reception at Blake's hands would look like. I would also love a look inside Carter's head at where Blake was mentally before that first meeting. I've no doubt he was deeply withdrawn and depressed, but go back and forth on how genuine his presentation of it was. I can see it being 100 percent genuine, but I can also see him frantically ginning up a grimy disguise on the other side of the door to horrify the self-important ensign who's been sent to irritate him. XD
And oh, that second meeting. Surprise! I'm always a bit bemused on rereads that it's Buchanan that sets it up and not Collinson, because it's such a Collinson power move. "Here, two people who hate each other! Have fun cooperating!" I was very taken with Blake's flat "no" in this scene, and how he and Avery race each other to quit before the other guy can fire them, so to speak. And yes, goals. You can just see the wheels spinning in Blake's head: Fine. But I'm only doing this because I want to travel India again and find Mountstuart, and you can't make me do anything else.
I also wonder how much Blake knew about the anti-Thuggee campaign at that point.
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Oh, definitely. That's a really good point! I mean, I was an idiot when I was in my early twenties and I come from a far better situation than Avery does. That, coupled with the time and place that he's in, definitely works against him. In fact it's kind of a miracle that he does make so any strides later on in the books.
Yeah, it's sad that the same thing that enabled Avery to win Helen - the journey through India - is also the same thing that makes him an utterly terrible husband for her. It's not that either of them are bad people, it's just that they're coming at life from completely different angles after the first book and they're both helplessly stuck in that situation. One of the few faults with these books, at least to me, is that Carter isn't a little more understanding of Helen; she's also very much a product of her time, and has far fewer options than Avery does in that regard. If she doesn't have a husband she can do nothing, if she has a husband who fundamentally doesn't understand her then she's even worse off.
(One of the more out there ideas I play around with occasionally is that Helen is one of Collinson's spies. I know this would never happen! But I think it'd be fun.)
Oh, both are definitely options! I generally tend towards thinking that it's perfectly genuine, because I love the arc of Avery slowly bringing him back to life, but I also like him literally just doing it to screw with Avery. That seems a very Blake thing to do. XD
It really is such a Collinson move! It's interesting that he isn't around at that point, because he's such a master manipulator in that regard. And yeah, Blake really is just the absolute highlight of that scene. His absolute refusal to budge, and insistence on doing things only for his own ends, is really telling of how he's going to react to authority from now on. I also love him and Avery racing each other to quit! They're both so reluctant to do it, but I also wonder if the moment that Avery tried to get out of it was the moment that Blake started to pay attention to him.
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Oh no. D: It's not much, but I am happy to keep squeeing about these books AT LENGTH for as long as it's entertaining.
Yes, this. Helen really gets a bum deal, to which we can later add a husband away in combat, a miscarriage, postpartum depression, and a husband clearly more concerned with "the sainted Blake" than her into the mix… And divorce is not a feasible option—particularly women—at that time. I hope that the lack of understanding is the limitation of Avery’s POV versus Carter’s treatment of Helen. I also admit to fearing that Avery might pursue Matty in a subsequent book, because TDF sure seemed to be inching in that direction at points. D:
(One of the more out there ideas I play around with occasionally is that Helen is one of Collinson's spies. I know this would never happen! But I think it'd be fun.)
I. Freaking. LOVE. THIS. It is such a fascinating and intriguing idea, and Avery, due to the limitations of his worldview, would never see it coming. What better cover than being the 1840’s equivalent of an airhead? It would kind of be his just desserts.
I think Blake was entirely depressed and withdrawn from the world, but I do kinda wonder how much of his physical decrepitude was genuine versus put on or played up to try to get the Company to believe him too feeble for any mission and leave him TF alone. Buchanan's "In a few days with both know you will be quite recovered from the fever and perfectly able to travel" stood out to me in that regard. And Blake does seem to recover pretty quickly once they're on the road, in contrast to his condition in later books where he's pretty genuinely not in the best of health.
I also wonder if the moment that Avery tried to get out of it was the moment that Blake started to pay attention to him.
Yeah, like, maybe Avery isn't 100 percent the pushover Company yes man Blake had at first assumed, and suddenly, the seed is planted...
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I doubt the books will ever go canon with Blake/Avery, but that whole thing adds a really interesting angle in my head. How on earth is Helen supposed to deal with the fact that her husband is in love with another man, and in denial about it? She just has such a hard time, and is so crushed by her life and the decisions that were forced upon her. She didn't even want to leave Calcutta in the first place!
I also admit to fearing that Avery might pursue Matty in a subsequent book, because TDF sure seemed to be inching in that direction at points. D:
Oh God, I am glad we are equally dismayed about that prospect. D: I mean, I like them both! I just don't want to see them as a romantic couple in any way. Avery would only end up ruining her life and feeling awful about it, and I don't want that for either of them.
I. Freaking. LOVE. THIS. It is such a fascinating and intriguing idea, and Avery, due to the limitations of his worldview, would never see it coming. What better cover than being the 1840’s equivalent of an airhead? It would kind of be his just desserts.
Exactly! Again, it'll never happen, but... It would be SUCH a fun idea. :D I especially like the thought of Collinson marrying Helen to Avery basically as a way to get a far too promising agent (one who was starting to go the Blake route of having far too many independent thoughts of her own) out of the way, and Helen is not (only) bitter over the state of her marriage but also bitter over being basically cast aside.
I think Blake was entirely depressed and withdrawn from the world, but I do kinda wonder how much of his physical decrepitude was genuine versus put on or played up to try to get the Company to believe him too feeble for any mission and leave him TF alone.
Oh, I see what you mean! Yes, I can definitely see that. I picture Blake as always having slightly fragile health, but in the first book he seems a lot hardier than he is later. I can definitely see him attempting it as a last ditch method to get out of it.
maybe Avery isn't 100 percent the pushover Company yes man Blake had at first assumed, and suddenly, the seed is planted...
Blake would be the type to be intrigued by somebody being argumentative. XD
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I doubt the books will ever go canon with Blake/Avery
I totally agree. I mean, Carter dedicated TSV to her sons. And yet. I read TSV pretty shortly after The Watchmaker of Filigree Street and The Goblin Emperor. The first one has canon m/m and the second has characters who the author has said are romantically interested in the male protagonist although she couldn't figure out how to explicitly work it into the narrative. Despite all that, I got equally strong/stronger m/m vibes from TSV than either of those books. Maybe it's because Carter inadvertently incorporates so many of my favorite fic tropes. Whatever the reason, they are there and I will happily work with them. XD
How on earth is Helen supposed to deal with the fact that her husband is in love with another man, and in denial about it?
And it's deeply unfair because contemporary society offered Avery/men so many more outlets than Helen/women if they found themselves in unhappy marriages, and it makes my teeth grind. I feel like Carter starts to explore this a bit in TDF and I hope any future books will look at it in even more detail. One of the fics I've been picking away at for ages began in part with the question, How does Helen get out of this situation in a way that gives her a happy end? Because she absolutely deserves it.
She didn't even want to leave Calcutta in the first place!
It's not clear she even wanted to go to Calcutta in the first place. One of the things I find really like about Helen is the somewhat mercenary way she racks and stacks her suitors. I find it really admirable. If society is going to make her ability to live comfortably solely dependent on her spouse, then she is going to choose her spouse largely for his ability to provide a comfortable lifestyle, social opprobrium be damned. Because it's absolutely rotten to give her just one way to obtain the life she wants and then criticize her as heartless for pursuing it.
Avery would only end up ruining her life and feeling awful about it, and I don't want that for either of them.
Or worse still, if his infidelity is what effects a reconciliation between him and Helen, which I don't believe is out of the realm of possibility in future books.
I especially like the thought of Collinson marrying Helen to Avery basically as a way to get a far too promising agent (one who was starting to go the Blake route of having far too many independent thoughts of her own) out of the way, and Helen is not (only) bitter over the state of her marriage but also bitter over being basically cast aside.
Particularly in an era when you do start to see women agitating for the social space to have more independent thoughts, as you say. That move would be a Very Collinson Thing To Do.TM
I picture Blake as always having slightly fragile health, but in the first book he seems a lot hardier than he is later.
Yeah, his rookery childhood, then imprisonment, then transportation were probably not a great start to life from an overall health perspective. My headcanon is that India definitely sees him at his healthiest: more physical activity, possibly better food, better air quality, and for at least some of the time, a better mental state. He does seem to go downhill precipitously in later volumes.
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And it's deeply unfair because contemporary society offered Avery/men so many more outlets than Helen/women if they found themselves in unhappy marriages, and it makes my teeth grind.
Definitely! It was the kind of time period where men were almost expected to fuck around outside of their marriages, even if they were relatively happy. If they were actively unhappy, then they could do anything they please and it wouldn't be their fault at all. While women couldn't even look at another man without risking their reputation...
One of the things I find really like about Helen is the somewhat mercenary way she racks and stacks her suitors. I find it really admirable. If society is going to make her ability to live comfortably solely dependent on her spouse, then she is going to choose her spouse largely for his ability to provide a comfortable lifestyle, social opprobrium be damned.
I like that too! She's very casually ambitious and focused on making herself comfortable, and honestly I find that great about her. She's very, very much a realist in a lot of ways; and while that clashes with poor Avery quite a lot, who obviously thought that he was marrying for love and only later figured out that Helen was marrying based largely on practical considerations, I cannot fault her for it at all. I would kill to see Helen interacting with Blake a bit more, and with Matty too!
Or worse still, if his infidelity is what effects a reconciliation between him and Helen, which I don't believe is out of the realm of possibility in future books.
Oh, nooooo. I mean, I'm not that much of a fan of infidelity as a plot device anyway... But at least have Avery have an affair with Blake, instead of dragging all these poor innocent women into it!
Particularly in an era when you do start to see women agitating for the social space to have more independent thoughts, as you say. That move would be a Very Collinson Thing To Do.TM
I must admit, that I do have a fairly involved fic idea in my head that involves Helen somehow being revealed as a former spy - perhaps due to a murder that she ends up having to investigate with Matty - and being convinced to work with Blake & Avery to bring Collinson down. It would be literally novel length, which is why I haven't even attempted to write it, but I still regularly return to play around with it. XD
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I suppose it's easier to be relatively happy though when the inadvisable stuff you do really isn't your fault; it's just, society expects it of you so you really don't have a choice and might as well anyway. *extreme side eye*
If they were actively unhappy, then they could do anything they please and it wouldn't be their fault at all. While women couldn't even look at another man without risking their reputation...
Yes, and the risk ultimately originates in this idea of men not being trustworthy or able to control or restrain themselves around women, which. Wouldn't that argue for cloistering men away from society? It's also patently false, but again, the narrative sure let some bad actors live their best lives at the expense of pretty much everyone else.
She's very casually ambitious and focused on making herself comfortable, and honestly I find that great about her.
Yes! And again, I don't see anything different between Helen's ambition in that regard, and Avery's, seeing as this is the guy who went to India precisely to get 1) money, 2) status, 3) status symbol spouse. It's entirely arbitrary that his choice is generally considered rational, adventurous, etc. while women who pursue those goals (and are forced to do it in the reverse order) are seen very negatively for doing so.
She's very, very much a realist in a lot of ways; and while that clashes with poor Avery quite a lot, who obviously thought that he was marrying for love and only later figured out that Helen was marrying based largely on practical considerations, I cannot fault her for it at all.
To say nothing of the fact that Avery's definition of love largely boils down to "I think you're purdy," which (skipping ahead of things here) is what Blake explicitly warns him about! And the thing is, Avery on one level always knew she was choosing based on practical considerations: that's why she favored Keay before his departure, and Avery acknowledged as much. So it's a bit self-deceptive and self-serving on his part to convince himself otherwise when she very directly ends that engagement to marry the guy (i.e. Avery) with better prospects.
I'm not that much of a fan of infidelity as a plot device anyway... But at least have Avery have an affair with Blake, instead of dragging all these poor innocent women into it!
Yes, agreed. And at least some of my impatience with and dislike of it comes from the fact that it's so often been used as a cheap plot catalyst for the male protagonist's personal growth.
I must admit, that I do have a fairly involved fic idea in my head that involves Helen somehow being revealed as a former spy - perhaps due to a murder that she ends up having to investigate with Matty - and being convinced to work with Blake & Avery to bring Collinson down. It would be literally novel length, which is why I haven't even attempted to write it, but I still regularly return to play around with it. XD
I know I sound like a broken record, but I WOULD ABSOLUTELY READ THIS. It's such a fascinating idea, and I love the thought of Matty and Helen being just as effective as the boys (and perhaps society's low expectations of what they're capable of even amplifying that effectiveness)!
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Yes! It's SO FRUSTRATING. Men are allowed to do anything, because there's this really intense atmosphere of boys will be boys and men know best, and that goes double if they're upper class and white and have even the slightest bit of money. It's incredibly disgusting.
To say nothing of the fact that Avery's definition of love largely boils down to "I think you're purdy," which (skipping ahead of things here) is what Blake explicitly warns him about! And the thing is, Avery on one level always knew she was choosing based on practical considerations: that's why she favored Keay before his departure, and Avery acknowledged as much. So it's a bit self-deceptive and self-serving on his part to convince himself otherwise when she very directly ends that engagement to marry the guy (i.e. Avery) with better prospects.
It is! The double standards in the situation are just awful. Helen is doing exactly the same thing as Avery was, but is judged for it. Helen is also only the slightest bit more depressed than Avery with her situation in the second two books, and yet again she is judged for it while Avery gets a lot of sympathy. It really doesn't seem fair. And yeah, she did say a little spiel about how she always favoured him secretly and he was the choice of her heart... But come on, anybody could've seen through that!
Yes, agreed. And at least some of my impatience with and dislike of it comes from the fact that it's so often been used as a cheap plot catalyst for the male protagonist's personal growth.
Is is, isn't it? And it just annoys me. Maybe you can tell an interesting infidelity plot, though I must admit that I've never read one myself, but I'm even more against it when it's just a way to somehow redeem the man. He does an extremely shitty thing, but he regrets it afterwards so obviously that's fine!
I know I sound like a broken record, but I WOULD ABSOLUTELY READ THIS. It's such a fascinating idea, and I love the thought of Matty and Helen being just as effective as the boys (and perhaps society's low expectations of what they're capable of even amplifying that effectiveness)!
I'm glad! :D I always mean to write more Matty & Helen (and Matty/Helen, for that matter). I think the two of them together could lead to an even more interesting examination of power in society. Because nobody pays attention to women, especially if they're married or a servant, and so they'd basically be able to solve crimes unseen.
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I know this is OT, but please tell me more about this!
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Prologue: I enjoyed the suspense of the prologue, but the worst part was the monkey being killed.
Ch 1: I love the detail in this book. Which is weird, because in many books the detail is more of a distraction from the story and I skim a lot, but here, India is another character in the story and the detail fleshes her out. Avery proves himself to be the kind of person I would dislike upon meeting them. I was irritated at his insistence that the natives should learn English when he couldn't be bothered to learn Hindoostanee. And his rudeness when entering Blake's home in his refusal to remove his shoes.
Ch 2: A part of me loved the notion of Avery being surprised that Blake knew his hero Mountstuart. I do not trust Buchanan.
Ch 3: I was very surprised by Macpherson's death the first time I read this book, and dreading it this time. I felt bad for Avery having lost his friend and having to leave so much that was ~familiar behind, but I rolled my eyes when he started drinking and agreed to gamble after having just paid off his debts. (Why wasn't there a place he could store those things?!! Seems there should have been.)
Ch 4: I really like how Mir Aziz appears to have taken Avery under his wings and explain things to him. I would not want to travel this way, and yet I found Avery's complaining and expectation of servants to do everything, very irritating. Also, he is quite a trouble magnet.
I hadn't thought about the culture shock and missing home and depression having anything to do with Avery's actions, but that certainly sounds right. I also thought it was bad form for Avery to tell Mir Aziz how good they have it with the Company there. *eye roll*
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Oh god, I know. That part is really hard to read, just so casually cruel. D:
India is another character in the story and the detail fleshes her out.
Absolutely! I have such vivid mental images of the scenery and background detail, which I can't say for a lot of books. But it just works so well here. It also really gives you a sense of what a fish out of water Avery is, particularly in an age when you didn't have photography or modern media to give you an idea of what a faraway place is like.
Avery proves himself to be the kind of person I would dislike upon meeting them. I was irritated at his insistence that the natives should learn English when he couldn't be bothered to learn Hindoostanee. And his rudeness when entering Blake's home in his refusal to remove his shoes.
Oh, I know! He's such a jackass in these early chapters. And while I understand why that might be, I still feel like Frank has the better idea: trying to communicate and understand where you are is going to make being there much more tolerable, if not fun. But whatever impression Avery had initially formed of India before he went, the reality is clearly not it.
A part of me loved the notion of Avery being surprised that Blake knew his hero Mountstuart. I do not trust Buchanan.
I can just picture Avery's face: Wait, you mean my literary hero is friends with you!?! And Buchanan definitely seems like an operator. If Blake needs a minder, perhaps send someone else for the job? Alarm bells are definitely ringing.
I felt bad for Avery having lost his friend and having to leave so much that was ~familiar behind, but I rolled my eyes when he started drinking and agreed to gamble after having just paid off his debts. (Why wasn't there a place he could store those things?!! Seems there should have been.)
I know! On the one hand, it's clear he's very unhappy and adrift, but on the other hand, everything he's doing is just digging that hole deeper. Yeah, I also don't understand why he couldn't store the items, especially since he intends to go back and then deploy to wherever they decide to send him. You think the Company could store them for him. At the very least, one would hope he'd have had the sense to sell them and maybe set out a little less indebted than before, but oh well. Maybe it's just another symptom of his mental state at that point.
I would not want to travel this way, and yet I found Avery's complaining and expectation of servants to do everything, very irritating. Also, he is quite a trouble magnet.
Yeah, especially coming after all the griping he did in earlier chapters about having nothing to do but sit around. Again, Carter gives readers a really good sense of how Company men feel they're owed ease and status; that certainly seems to be Avery's starting assumption and main complaint here.
That said, there's a part of me that thinks Blake is making things a little more awful than they need to be, too. Travel light? Absolutely. But surely it's worth staying in a dak house or Company lodgings during the worst of the rain, non? If only to keep the party healthy enough to carry out its mission?
I also thought it was bad form for Avery to tell Mir Aziz how good they have it with the Company there. *eye roll*
Right there with you. It does a good job of showing how far Avery has yet to go... -.-;;