Endgame!

[lebateleur]

Was a really great movie; better, in fact, than I'd been expecting (and far more satisfying on every level than Infinity War). It certainly did not feel like I spent over three hours in the theater.

Some quick first impressions, featuring spoilers!

I have a sneaking suspicion that the time travel mechanics won't hold up to logical scrutiny, and I'm trying not to look at them too carefully.

Cap, Iron Man, and Thor are the main stars here, with some pivotal assists from Black Widow and Hulk. Cap and Thor have always been my favorites, so I loved all the attention their stories got. And there are so many Easter eggs for fans of these characters: the "Cap in the elevator" redux may be my favorite scene in the entire movie. Also look out for:

• Cap and Mjollnir, and Thor's reaction to the above; so good.
  
• The hilarious coda to The Avengers, in which Loki sets himself up for his miniseries, and the excellent Cap vs. Cap scene.
  
• Cap and his support groups.
  
• Cap and Bucky remixing a notable exchange from The First Avenger.

Thor's transformation is hilarious, heartwrenching, and perfectly in keeping with his character. His reunion with Freya was so sweet and sad and good. And I really love the careful way the Russos build to the resolution of Cap's storyline. Attentive viewers will see it coming long before it arrives, but that doesn't make it any less satisfying.

Other great bits: Korg and Drax and Mantis' cameos. Hulk in the coffee shop. Captain Marvel carrying ten times' everyone else's weight. The Ancient One's scenes (who knows, maybe there's even a branch universe out there where Marvel actually has the balls to make her Tibetan. "Time Heist." Black Widow crying over a jam sandwich (oh god, I spent most of the movie just wanting to give her a giant hug.)

This probably makes me anathema to a large portion of MCU fandom, but I can take or leave Iron Man so his demise didn't pack much of a punch for me. (And hey, if Pepper misses him so badly, maybe she should just revive him with Goop or something. I hear that stuff can do anything.) Also, the "noble hero sacrifices himself for the Greater Good but is survived in a bittersweet conclusion by his child" is an ending that bores the living crap out of me. Especially because it's an ending that's pretty much reserved exclusively For The Dudes. Tony gets a wife to mourn him and a child to carry on his genetic legacy. Black Widow gets...?

At least they didn't go for a full on surprise! pregnancy here.

And I know I said I wasn't going to look too closely at the time travel, but. It does suffer from the same paradox all time travel stories do; namely, an inability to explain why the heroes are able to use time travel to fix things in this one instance but never again after that.

I had some other minor quibbles (half the world's population is gone and yet humanity somehow manages to keep the oil refineries going and the groceries stocked and the roads paved?) but overall the movie is so good I'm willing to handwave them away.


All in all, a really satisfying movie that I don't regret spending the money and hassle to see in the theater.

これで以上です

Comments

[spikedluv]

So good! The Easter eggs were so fun to spot!

[metal_dog5]

I really enjoyed it. I agree with all of your points, and there were enough nods to the comics canon for those who are fans of those universes too. While we didn't see every previous character possible from the MCU, they brought back plenty. The way they managed to bring back so many without them feeling they'd been shoehorned in was quite the feat. One of the other things you haven't mentioned that I did like is that those who were dead before the first snap stayed dead.

I expected Tony's death, and it wasn't as hard for me this time unlike in the previous movie when I thought he was about to die. Natasha's death on the other hand was unexpected.

About Tony & Pepper, I've never been a fan of the pairing. I like Pepper as a character, but not as Tony's love interest, or her being reduced to the mother of his child. They could have completely removed Pepper and Morgan from the story and very little would have changed. Maybe Steve wouldn't have had the impetus to find Peggy afterwards, but other than that.... I can't think of anything else.

I disagree a little bit with you about that minor quibble; as Scott tries to find Cassie we see the dilapidated houses, road covered with leaf litter, footpaths overloaded with uncollected rubbish, and no cars on the street other than the one up on blocks. That was enough for me to suggest that not everything has continued to run as it did 5 years ago.

I have more thoughts, but they're a jumbled mess at the moment :)

[lebateleur]

While we didn't see every previous character possible from the MCU, they brought back plenty.
I was fine with this, because we're going to see plenty of those guys in forthcoming movies. As this is (theoretically) the end of the line for Tony, Steve, et al., I want the story to focus on them.

The way they managed to bring back so many without them feeling they'd been shoehorned in was quite the feat.
Agreed. They didn't really manage it with Age of Ultron, and with slightly more success in Civil War and Infinity War. But here they really nailed it. I think a lot of this is to do with their opting to not try to summarize the characters' story arcs for new viewers (a pet peeve of mine and something a lot of series try to do). If you haven't watched the previous 22 films, why should you be catered to?

One of the other things you haven't mentioned that I did like is that those who were dead before the first snap stayed dead.
Ye-es, she says cautiously. They certainly set the stage for Loki's resurrection, and I wouldn't be surprised if other characters return later, a la Phil Coulson.

Natasha's death on the other hand was unexpected.
Yes, I thought the script would have them discover a loophole the stone's sacrifice requirement by their willingness to sacrifice themselves so the other could live...but they did not do that and I am sad for Natasha.

I've never been a fan of the pairing. I like Pepper as a character, but not as Tony's love interest
Initially, I really liked them as a couple, but now I can't separate Paltrow from the characters she plays, a la Tom Cruise.

or her being reduced to the mother of his child.
Yes.

They could have completely removed Pepper and Morgan from the story and very little would have changed.
YES.

Maybe Steve wouldn't have had the impetus to find Peggy afterwards
I thought his choice was spurred by seeing Peggy during the time travel sequence at the base.

And fair enough about the post apocalyptic scenery, but somehow humanity still managed to keep the lights on, processed foods in production, and enough government/police presence going to prevent rioting, looting, profiteering, human trafficking, and all the other stuff I'd expect to quickly emerge if half of all humanity randomly disappeared. And yes, that's a little too much realism for this movieverse, but that's where my brain goes, so...

Happy to hear additional thoughts whenever your brain unjumbles them!

[metal_dog5]

I wouldn't have know Coulson was still alive if not for fandom osmosis. I watched a couple of episode of Agents of SHIELD before I walked away, so had no idea he was going to be resurrected or whatever they did for his return. It's also unlikely that I'll watch any other MCU spin-off shows. Tbh, I didn't know about a Loki miniseries or the Falcon/Winter Soldier thing until recently.

I thought his choice was spurred by seeing Peggy during the time travel sequence at the base.
I thought it was a combination of seeing Tony happy with a family as well as seeing 1970 era Peggy and her photo of him. In the previous movies I felt they made it clear that he had accepted her death and moved on. It actually bugs me because it doesn't make sense about how Steve choosing to go back and be with Peggy doesn't alter the future events at all. *insert Russo handwavy timeline magic here*

I can't separate Paltrow from the characters she plays, a la Tom Cruise.
Well she is rather samey in every performance. That's something else that was less than a stellar moment for me was seeing Pepper show up in in the Rescue Armor. Pepper hated the Iron Man suites and that part of Tony's life (which is another reason why I disliked Pepper and Tony being together), but she's going to be part of the final battle?

[lebateleur]

I thought Coulson's death was one of the most moving plot developments in Avengers, and was peeved when I learned they'd retconned it out, because that emotional impact evaporated. (I feel the same way about all the resurrections in the comics, so at least I'm consistent.)

I have high hopes for the Loki series, but will not watch on principle until it's available to borrow from my library on DVD. Same goes for Falcon/Winter Soldier and WandaVision. (Yes, that is going to be a thing.)

RE: Steve and Peggy. It also does not make sense because 1) Why did Tony/Pepper/Morgan sway him when Hawkeye and his happy family did not, b) he didn't have kids with Peggy, and c) as you said, he'd made his peace with things, and it's hard for me to buy that Supreme Goody Two-Shoes Steve would go back for me-time with Peggy without trying to save everyone else in the bargain. I thought handwaviness was going to come into play when Bruce had his whole misdirected answering monologue on the ins and outs of time travel, and I was not mistaken...

RE: Pepper and the armor. YES. I liked her character for being competent and going toe-to-toe with Tony's attitude, but that was wildly out of character. I thought the relationship on the rocks development in the earlier films made perfect sense and was disappointed that much of what she did subsequently served the exigencies of the plot versus logically developing from what had come before.

[metal_dog5]

WandaVision? Really? *sigh*

[i_am_zan]

Yup, it didn't feel like 3 hours to me ... I enjoyed it too.

Time travel, is always going to be wibbly wobbly timey-wimey, in whatever series it plays in ... it's always going to be difficult how you want to set the rules, or in many cases set them and break them as you go along. This happens in Dr Who, Star Trek (most recently in Star Trek Discovery) and of course now the MCU.

I loved spotting all the Easter eggs too. Cap vs Cap was well choreographed and scripted, as was the elevator scene. ... and Cap and his support groups. I loved it!

The main time travel quibble I have is Gamora and Nebula. If the original Nebula was killed ... and then the Old Gamora before the Soul Stone event, before meeting Quill, the build up to that meet ... uhmm yeah like you said - best I don't think about it too hard. At the end of the day the Guardians of the Galaxy are together again (which is good, because I love the Gamora/Nebula dynamic) and does that mean Thor will be travelling with them should Guardians 3 ever get filmed ( is a little hmmm with me because won't there be too many alpha males on that ship?) .

I'm kind of glad for Cap and his happily ever after, but does that mean 'Civil War' doesn't happen (which could be a good thing) or... how does it work?

I had expected it to be Iron Man's swan song, so I wasn't cut up too much about it - I was sad for Peter Parker though ... but Natasha's death hit me quite a lot harder than I thought it would. Perhaps because of all of them she is (I suppose this literally as well as figuratively) she is the most human - perhaps I love Clint Barton for the same reason too. Although he is very much quite a different character in the comics from long ago. Which brings me to gush about the fact that Hawkeye was in the film at all. I have a thing for minor characters. (Although I can see his devolution into a psychotic assassin going after the world's mobsters in retaliation for losing his family ... would the comeback from this dark place been so easy ... again really? I always feel - because of my bias I guess - that his stories are never dealt with satisfactorily. I also do realise they probably don't have the time so yeah I am quibbling. Ahahaha! )

I can't say too much about Antman and the Wasp - I never saw the films but from osmosis I know enough, nor did I see the Spiderman film or the first Thor one.

Freya and Thor ... that wise beautiful Asgardian witch. That scene was so much love.

.. and yes ... how they set up Loki for his series was pretty clever.

A lot of things to love about the film. A lot of other jumbly thoughts as well. But I suppose the scope of it all. A lot of folks are going to feel like that.

Glad you enjoyed it too! ^_^

[lebateleur]

The main time travel quibble I have is Gamora and Nebula. Yes, I mean, that's one way for them to get Gamora back, and Nebula too, after a fashion...but then you lose all the character development they went through. And yup, my guess is that Thor is part of the Guardians now.

In a way, it makes sense, what with Asgard destroyed and Thor being a non-Terran like the Guardians. But really, I think it was done because a lot of people liked Ragnarok who disliked the other two movies, and Ragnarok was basically the Thorverse remixed as Guardians, so it makes sense from a marketing standpoint. And Helmsworth does seem to enjoy doing comedy. But I loved my Shakespearean and Dark World Thor, so it's a bit of a disappointment for me.

If nothing else, I imagine Nebula will be able to keep most (if not all) of those alpha males in check. But I take your point. (If only they could somehow resurrect Yondu and add him to the mix. Yondu-Thor interactions would be hysterical.)

I'm kind of glad for Cap and his happily ever after, but does that mean 'Civil War' doesn't happen (which could be a good thing) or... how does it work?
I heard that the Russos said Cap went to another branch of the multiverse to be with Peggy, but that begs the question as to what happened to the original Cap in that branch. To say nothing of the fact that it seems a bit out of character for Cap, for all the reasons we keep going over.

Which brings me to gush about the fact that Hawkeye was in the film at all. I have a thing for minor characters. (Although I can see his devolution into a psychotic assassin going after the world's mobsters in retaliation for losing his family ... would the comeback from this dark place been so easy ... again really?
Apparently he's getting his own show on Disney, so you'll potentially be seeing quite a lot of him! And I guess his psychotic assassin devolution is a nod to the Hawkeye Ronin comics, which I have not read and thus totally did not pick up on.

The Antman and Wasp films are fun, but I still prefer almost all the other movies to them. The first Thor, however, is fabulous. It suffers a bit for being too subtle for its own good--Branagh was having a bit of a laugh at audiences who go into "just a superhero movie" and see exactly as little as they expect. But watch it closely and you will be rewarded. :D